carcano identification

Discussion in 'For Sale or Trade' started by finderskeeperz, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. can anyone help me identify a carcano? 40" Long, markings are SG inside an oval, crown over a shield inside a circle, serial number A H 5623, Terni with CAL ?5, 18 with a name i can't make out ?All??Al and AT on the bottom ritght facit. SIght goes up to 2000 yrds. This doesnt have the metal adaptor on the forestock. No grove in the mid stock just a slot for the cleaning rod. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

    Thanks Finder
  2. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

  3. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

    Hope it helped. From the description and the sight settings it sounded like the 1891, but I know little about rifles.
  4. digger

    digger Guest

  5. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

    What are they like to fire Rod? Do you own any other rifles?
  6. digger

    digger Guest

    Kyt they're not bad no recoil to speak of good feel on the trigger but a terribly slow bolt action. Interesting bullet feed arrangement similar to the Austrian Steyr in that you have a clip of 6 rounds which slide into a magazine with a slot at the bottom. The clip's held in place by a spring set into the rifle on thetrigger side of the clip and after the 6 rounds are fired the clip falls out the slot in the base of the maggy and the action stays open until reloaded. Reasonably accurate up to 200 yds but after that the light bullet is very susceptible to winds, temp and barometric pressure variations.
    I also own a 1918,1923 with mag cutoff and oval striker head, 1942, 1943 SMLE 1 Mk111*; 1 Savage made SMLE No.4 1942; No.4 1941, No.4 with heavy barrel ex sniper rifle made 1944; 1 No.5 "Jungle Carbine" Fazakerly 1945; Mauser Model 1896 that saw service in the Boer War according to its serial number but its bore is badly worn and is non operational; Mauser K98k 1937 built with matching bayonet and cleaning kit; Moisin Nagant M44 carbine7.62x54 1945 built; Arisaka Type 38 6.5mm with chrysanthemum and dust cover intact, built 1938. All except the Carcanos and the 1896 Mauser have bayonets and slings and are operational, but the Carcano and Arisaka ammo is extremely difficult to obtain. The M44 has the kick of 3 horses and a spectacular flame from the muzzle because it uses the same powder load as the Moison Nagant 1891/30 long rifle. Looks great shooting it just on dusk but another slow bolt action and accurate up to 200 yds

  7. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

    Blimey, that's a very impressive collection, Digger.

    The magazine/clip arrangement for the Carcano sounds like it's asking for trouble. It must have been susceptible to alsorts of rubbish entering in to it.

    I'm very jealous of the ex-sniper and the Jungle Carbine. I've always loved the look of the Carbine. There seems to be some controversy about its accuracy though, in comparison to the standard SMLE. Have you noticed anything? And do you have a scope for the sniper version? I hope it's not one of the Nato-calibre converted ones.

    The Ariska always makes me chuckle. Trust one of the shorter races producing the longest service rifle of the time! But I suppose they weren't as concerned with long range accuracy because of their doctrine of close combat. Wasn't it the 38 that had the massice baynot too?

    I bet the Moisin Nagant must have a kick to it with it's heavier cartridge.

    Cheers for sharing your collection. It would be great to see some photos if you get the chance.
  8. digger

    digger Guest

    The jungle carbine has always been a favourite of mine too ever since a bloke up the road from me had one when I was only a kid. It's supposed to have a boot and a half to it too but i haven't found that and am using full strength military fmj rounds and loads. Up to 100yds it's beaut and on the range from that distance have shot many possibles with it but after 100yds it's got the beaten zone of a Vickers:). I also have a bayonet for it, which resembles the SLR bayonet, the main difference being the enlarged muzzle ring to fit the flash eliminator, and genuine ones are as scarce as rocking horse droppings. Lots of "converted" Ishapore No.4 to a "No.5" but IMHO these should be avoided as being downright dangerous with poor workmanship. With the wind up rear sight on the No.4 which is still .303 hasn't been converted to NATO I use 4 clicks up from zero per 100yds which it seems to rather like. It doesn't have the scope or the cheekpiece, it was broken when I acquired it, so has a standard No.4 butt now but that hasn't affected its accuracy. All the 303's seem to have a distinct preference for the PMC ammo but it's getting hard to get too. I use the jungle carbine when i go pig shooting with sporting ammo and once you hit a pig with that it stays hit:).
    You're correct the Arisaka does have the long hooked quillon bayonet which is said by some to have been the "template" for the P07 SMLE bayonet, being the same overall length. After the end of WW2 most of the Japanese weapons had the chrysanthemum, the Royal flower of Japan, ground off so there was no loss of face when they were handed in. The U.S. army tested them with ever increasing powder loads to test the Mauser based action but blew up the barrels and the action stayed intact, making it arguably the strongest action used during WW2. The later Arisaka type 99 had the same quillonless appearance of the P07 bayonet and because the type 99 was 7.7mm calibre, almost identical to the .303 the Aussie troops in New Guinea and the islands found that the Jap bayonets for it would fit their SMLE's. There was also a bayonet produced for the Owen gun, which I have one of(bayonet not the gun), in the late 40-50s and it's almost a shortened P07 bayonet and will fit on the SMLE MK111-111*.
    The only camera I have is the one with my mobile phone and it doesn't take very good pics at all but if I can con a loan of our museum's camera I'll certainly take some pics and post them.
  9. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

    Yes, I've seen the bayonets for the JC. It doesn't look so strange by modern standards but must have done then. However, I've never figured out why the sten had a bayonet - always seemed like an odd idea, and no one taken up by any other country (I don't think even the Russians had them on the SMGs back then). And I don't think I've ever seen pictures of an Owen with bayonet attached. I shall have to do a google.

    I bet there's some dodgy dealers who are passing off re-stamped chrysanthemum as original. The Arisaka type 99 production never really caught up with demand, which I suppose was just as well. The heavier round with better range and penetration was the last think the allies wanted. And even the ones that were produced suffered in quality by the end of the war.

    I hope you get a chance to borrow the camera. Not much opportunity for collecting weapons in the UK. They've even clamped down on replicas!

    Cheers for those informative posts.
  10. Kyt

    Kyt Άρης

  11. Antipodean Andy

    Antipodean Andy New Member

    Always amazes me how little there is of the Owen.
  12. war hawk

    war hawk New Member

    I have a Mosin Nagant in M44 carbine, the carbine kicks allright, the rifle in Mosin Nagant does not kick that bad and I have fired the rifle Mosin many times. I hope that answers your question.:)
  13. war hawk

    war hawk New Member

    What do you mean clamped down on firearms? If you mean that you cannot have certain firearms -please tell me details about it.:)

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