Who is this man and where did he come from ?

Discussion in 'World War 1' started by Michel Knockaert, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. Oh Annie ... I thank you, it is where I wanted to come ... ;)

    I accomplished this task, without thinking, without revulsion, with delicacy, I would say even with tenderness, without gloves, bare hands, identifying each bone, as if I had done this all my life ... I who is so afraid of death, I have no fear ... I was serene ... unusually serene ... as if the man, the deceased himself sent me waves caring, soothing ... I was in another dimension ... I was doing my destiny and this poor guy broke in the prime of life with whom I had appointments, without knowing it, since very long time. He expected from all those years ... and he decided to date ...

    At the end of the operations the gendarmes closed the bag and took him to the coroner to examine the remains ...
  2. Annie ...

    As Scrimnet, you guessed about Bavarian ...;)

    Here is a photo of an object Taked by the police just after being out of the water, I thank them here for agreeing to give me, because I was exceptionnaly allowed to do one with my camera and... I was so excited it was very bad...

    If I do not mistake, It seems there is the bavarian lion on it... but it is very dirty and oxidized...

    Attached Files:

  3. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    I found this ..... or did they all have those ??

  4. spof

    spof New Member

    This is pure speculation but it does link nicely to the boot and button

    From the book Histories of two hundred and fifty-one divisions of the German army which participated in the war (1914-1918) http://www.archive.org/details/historiesoftwohu00unit

    I found this reference to Richebourg:

    1st Bavarian Reserve Division
    April 9 the division reinforced the front near Richebourg-St. Vaast, and took
    part in the initial attack on the Lys battle front the same day. It advanced through
    Lacouture, Vieille-Chapelle, and had reached Zelobes April 10. After the first day's
    fighting it met with a strong resistance and suffered heavily. It was relieved near
    Robecq by the 239th Division, April 18.

    By 1918, the Division was made up of

    1 infantry brigade made up of 1, 2, and 3 Bavarian Reserve regiments.

    3 Sqdn, 3 Bavarian Light Cavalry Regiment

    3rd Bavarian Artillery Command made up of
    - 1 Bavarian Reserve FA Regiment
    - 1 Abt. 1 Bav FTA Regiment (Staff, 1,2 and 4 batteries)
    - 101 Bav Light Am Col
    - 145 Bav Light Am Vol
    - 147 Bav Light Am Col

    17 Bavarian Pioneer Battalion made up of
    - 1 Bavarian Reserve Pioneer Company
    - 17 Bavarian Reserve Pioneer Company
    - 201 Bav T M Company
    - 18 Bavarian Searchlight Section

    401 Bavarian Signals Command made up of
    - 401 Bavarian Tel Detachment
    - 106 Bavarian Wireless Detachment

    15 Bavarian Hospital Company

    45 Bavarian Field Hospital

    48 Bavarian Field Hospital

    750 M T Col

    If (and that's a big if) this is the man's unit, I'd say we are probably looking at about no more than 6000-7000 men. :eek: Depending on how well it had been reinforced. Scrimnet would be able to give a better number.

    Now.....to wait for more information from Michel.

  5. Antipodean Andy

    Antipodean Andy New Member

    A brilliant thread. Well done, Michel, I can understand the reverence in which you handled the remains.

    Well done, guys, on the research to date as well.
  6. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    By George I think you've got it Glen !! :)

    Oh my goodness Michel ! the dates Glen gave are when the Portuguese were there ...... !!

    Your man must have been fighting the Portuguese !! :eek:


  7. Annie and Glen, thank you very much for your good work and your pricious help.

    At no time during the First World War German troops are advanced in sewing up the place or the Bavarian soldier was found before 1918, during Operation "Georgette", they were defeated in 1914 in the rue de la Neuve Lane which is adjacent to the rue du Bois, bordering Richebourg.

    Here is the map the course of the fighting on the sector held by troops of the 2nd PortugueseDivision Portuguese, among Fleurbaix (on north) and Festubert (on south).

    I found embrioni tracks on the presence of the 1st of the 4th or the 8th Division Bavarian Reserve.

    BUT ... Glen today, you advance the case of a big step with the precision you make on the 1st division.

    Attached Files:

  8. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Michel ... what is the name of that river ?? :)
  9. Hello Annie ! :)

    The name of the river is "La Lawe", and... yes we are in Portuguese sector.
  10. [
    If (and that's a big if) this is the man's unit, I'd say we are probably looking at about no more than 6000-7000 men. :eek: Depending on how well it had been reinforced. Scrimnet would be able to give a better number.

    Now.....to wait for more information from Michel.


    You are right Glen... but we are searching a missing... maybe somewhere is it a list of them...
  11. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Oh ... I was thinking it was the Lys !! and maybe that was the battle !! :confused:
  12. May be this can help...:)

    here is a photograph (Gendarmerie) of a little portrait of a German General (bavarian) found with the remains...

    Incredible to see the state of the colors after 90 years in mud an water...

    Attached Files:

  13. Annie, it was well the Battle of the Lys... and the river Lawe is an affluent of the lys...
  14. Here is also the Bavarian Lion, cleaned yesterday afternoon... (as some weeks ago the Officer of Gendarmerie gave it to me, with the coin of 1 pfennig and the portrait...)

    Attached Files:

  15. And here is the 1912 Deutsches Reich 1 pfennig...

    Attached Files:

  16. Two letters, W.B. are engraved under the Lion, what does it mean...?

    Attached Files:

  17. spof

    spof New Member


    The German version of the CWGC is at http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_suche.asp but it is hard to use as I don't speak German :eek: And it needs a name to search so perhaps an email to them might help.

    I read somewhere that unfortunately only about 40% of German soldiers from both wars have marked graves and that nearly all their records were lost in in the second world war so I think it will be very difficult.

    Those objects certainly lasted well and look wonderful after a clean up. The general seems to have a first name of Anth***** so tomorrow I'll try to find a list of generals from the 1st division.

    I only checked forthe area close to Richebourg and not Flerbaix or Festubert. I'll do that as well.

    We're making progress. :)
  18. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Heres the battle but it doesn't say who was who !!!!!!! :rolleyes:

    Battle of the Lys

    Annie :)
  19. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    1st Royal Bavarian Division (1. Königlich Bayerische Division); from August 2, 1914, 1st Bavarian Infantry Division (1. Bayerische Infanterie-Division)
    Infantry (in peacetime included cavalry)
    Approx. 15,000
    Part of
    I. Royal Bavarian Army Corps
    (I. Kgl. Bayer. Armeekorps)
    Austro-Prussian War
    Franco-Prussian War: Wörth, Beaumont, and Sedan, 1st and 2nd Orleans, Loigny-Poupry, Paris
    World War I: Frontiers, Race to the Sea, Verdun, Somme, Spring Offensive


    Notable commanders

    Luitpold, Prince Regent of Bavaria, Ludwig Freiherr von und zu der Tann-Rathsamhausen, Prince Leopold of Bavaria, Rupprecht, Crown Prince of Bavaria, Otto Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein
  20. Antipodean Andy

    Antipodean Andy New Member

    This is a most amazing experience watching you lot work your magic.

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