Who is this man and where did he come from ?

Discussion in 'World War 1' started by Michel Knockaert, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. Fritz,

    I know this card and all these places, I live there.

    It was also found:

    kit spoon-fork, cigarette case, a few pieces of equipment in leather, a piece of scabbard dagger or bayonet, some metal buckles, pieces of fabric, buttons unadorned.

    No helmet, no weapon, no ammunition.

    A piece of shrapnel the size of a cap bottle of wine in one arm.

    It does almost nothing resait of the skull and uneomoplate had arrived in the thoracic cavity
    as if he had suffered heavily from the rear.
  2. YES...!!!

    I found the remains at the level of the two closest footbrigdes.

    I try since two hours to put arrows on google map and my maps... but I unable to do that...:mad:
  3. spof

    spof New Member

    Wow! I go away for a few days and all sorts of new information comes out. Thanks for the description of the W.B. initials Fritz.


    Can you describe them e.g. above or below the top dark grid line? Or the line marked 2-3-4? etc Or can you save the map and put markings on it in MS Paint or similar?

    Does this help?


  4. Hill 40

    Hill 40 New Member

    Thanks for that Michel. The info you've just given helps my theory quite a lot. It mainly involves the date of death (which, in turn, could indicate the unit). I doubt that a 100% positive ID could ever be made on this man with what was found, but I'd wager that the odds could be cut down to about 1 in 10, if not better.

    Thanks again.
  5. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Well don't leave us dangling !!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

    tell us what you're thinkin' !! :)
  6. Hill 40

    Hill 40 New Member

    Come on Annie - I thought you knew me betterthan that!:D

    I never like to theorise in public without facts to back up the theory. A closer look at the events from both sides of the wire is needed first, especially as regards the "when"s , "where"s and the "who"s. It's not something that can really be randomly guessed at and I suspect that the internet will only be of very limited use here. I'll get back to you on this when I've had a think about this.
  7. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Well you know what they say ? ... patience is the key to paradise .... :rolleyes:

    ( guess where I'm going ?? :p )

    OK ! ..... I found this !

  8. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

  9. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    What about this ..... ?

  10. Hill 40

    Hill 40 New Member

    That's what I mean about the internet of being only limited use.:p :D

    What's referred to there is in the wrong place and, that besides, is far too general to be of much use when trying to home in on such a small section of the battlefield. Forget Corps and divisions. Even battalions may be pushing it a little. What's needed is to discover exactly who was defending that specific stretch of river bank (it was the 6/Seaforth Highlanders, BTW,by the morning of 10th April when the west bank here was actually the front-line position but they were pushed back some 800yds throughout the day when both banks here fell into German hands) and who exactly was attacking there (that, I haven't yet discovered).

    Details of the Seaforths should be easy enough to find, but it's the problem of discovering exactly who it was that was opposing them here that is the cruncher - there may be mention in Seaforth histories/diaries/memoirs and in German official and divisional histories (then there's the problem of obtaining their verlustliste for the day and then cross-referencing it with the VdK listings of known burials, trying to obtain information of those whose bodies were repatriated and, therefore don't appear on VdK lists, and then working out whoever is left and finding their records to see if there is anything descriptive in them that may tie-in the person found). Then there's another problem...though it's more than likely that he was, there's no actual certainty that this man was killed on that particular day. He could quite easily have been killed moving up the line the day after or even later. Then there's the anomoly that it's possible that he wasn't even a front-line infantryman if he was killed later - all aspects that could make the research mentioned above completely irrelevant to the case (though if all was considered, the task would be greatly magnified, but i'd expect the end result to be the same)

    There you go - now you know what I was thinking!:D (though my own personal theory is still privately being considered!)
  11. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Oh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

    Well I just wanted to say that the 5th Seaforths were there too ! heres a bit of their war diary ! ( maybe you could use it in the process of elimination ! )

    The German Offensive North of Bethune 8th April 1918

    On the 9th April 1918 the Germans attacked the Portuguese Divisions front line that was Neuve Chapelle, the Portuguese Division were overwhelmed and broke, and could no longer be considered as a fighting force. The 5th Seaforths were at this time waiting to go into the reserve just outside Huit Maisons, at around 6 am the alarm was sounded, and the battalion was ordered to stand to.
    By midday the 1st/5th was in action, A and D Companies reinforcing the Corps Cyclists and King Edwards Horse at Les Huit Maisons in front of the River Lawe with B and C covering the bridges over the river. The battalion continued to keep the Germans at bay until 6pm, when heavy enfilade fire forced a retrial of 300 yards, and then some hours later, the flanks being turned (the Germans were nearly surrounding Huit Maisons), a further retreat took place to the village of Fosse which, with the bridge heads, was held all night and all day of the 10th (the 5th Seaforths experienced most sanguinary fighting) until 8pm, when, after severe fighting the battalion retired across the River Lawe, blowing the bridges behind them.
  12. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    I'll get my coat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p
  13. Hill 40

    Hill 40 New Member

    Not at that particular stretch of banking ("the green ("Army") line"). They were a good 2000 yds to the north of this position (with the 6/Gordons (well, 2 Coys of them) in between anyway).

    That's what I mean - I'm not trying to deliberately seem faceteous, it's just that, when trying to look at just one small aspect of a large battle, it can sometimes be best to just focus on that one point rather than the battle as a whole. Many battalions were in the general area (even your beloved S.Lancs - 2 Coys of the 4th bn were just to the south of the 6/Seaforths), but , when looking at an area of frontage that covers just several hundred yards out of a complete battlefront of over 20 miles, it's best to just concentrate on who exactly was on that specific spot.

    Already eliminated!:p :D
  14. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    I'll shurrup now !! :D ....

    and leave you to eliminate !!!!!!! ( that didn't sound right did it ?? )
  15. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

  16. Hello Annie:)

    I think it is something like that :

    the sun fell in west
    Tell them, I would have stayed at Sedan in the battle,
    in the last moment, always faithful to her by the thought
  17. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Well I think I should tell you guys that Michel's computer at home has gone "Kaput " !! :(

    So he can only just be on here for a few minutes at work .... !!

    " Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible " !! ;)
  18. Hello all !

    Annie, thank you very much to inform the friends of my PC problems.

    For the latest news we are still waiting .... eight to ten days.

    very friendly


    PS I think a lot to all of you
  19. liverpool annie

    liverpool annie New Member

    Any news on your German Soldier Michel ?

    I think everybody has stopped looking because we haven't heard anything !! :confused:

    Annie :)
  20. So sorry Annie, but nothing new on the horizon and the river level is still high, I can not go back yet.

    More than two months without internet at home ... I am 'in the Wind ", with a lot of catching up.:
    and hard work at the City Hall for the preparation of budgets.

    I see the officer of the gendarmerie Friday asking if I can get a copy of the autopsy report ...


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