When did Japan Surrender .. ??

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by Diptangshu, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    It is very true that nukes did force an immediate end to the War, restoring peace in the Pacific, but (respecting all the good efforts to end the War) I think there were other factors too, which ultimately forced Japan to sign unconditionally! Stalin, what I believe was the greatest of all among the Other factors.
    Japanese diplomats alongwith a group of officers of the War Department had been trying to negotiate with Stalin, I read many times that Japan sent several secret telegrams to the Russian authority for help or something like that! When all failed, Japan decided to surrender but not to the Russia.
    What I want to know, wheather the Bombs or Stalin or the both forced Japan to surrender unconditionally, your opinion in this regard?
     
  2. Alexander

    Alexander Member

    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  3. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    I think Op August Storm acted as a catalyst in the process of capitulation. The belligerent attitude of the Japanese War Department forced Stalin to breach the Neutrality pact! Japan bogged down to Moscow by 3rd week of Aug'45.
    Gen Derevyanko but warned Stalin not to send force for the island.
    So the fall of Manchuria was no less important for the process of capitulation.
     
  4. Banjo

    Banjo Member

    sOne factor sometimes overlooked in the collapse of the Showa empire was the success of the U.S. Navy's submarine campaign against Japanese merchant shipping. People in Japan were slowly starving to death because the ships needed to import the food to feed them, not to mention everything else to keep the civilian and military economy functioning, were at the bottom of the ocean. Two-thirds of Japanese military losses were due to starvation and illness caused by their weakened condition. Some people think the war would have ended as a result of the stranglehold the navy had on the Home Islands, but that is to disregard the blind fanaticism of the military clique that ruled Japan and nearly overthrew the emperor when he showed signs of surrendering.
    http://www.amazon.com/Great-Liars-They-knew-knew/dp/0989826902/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420734143&sr=8-1&keywords=jerry jay carroll
     
  5. Alexander

    Alexander Member

  6. Banjo

    Banjo Member

    Very informative. Tells you everything at a glance. Thanks.
     
  7. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

  8. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Well. Mighty efforts had been concentrating for the final hrs, still the Japanese War Dept did'nt bogged down even after they nuked!
    I eventually noted that atleast 50+ towns and cities were attacked by USAAF, 50+ towns and cities destroyed by '45. So how many still remaind in those four Islands to carry on fighting against the overhelming formidable enemy of the West?
    A good number of Japanese diplomats alongwith their War Department much depended upon the neutrality of Russia, by keeping faith upon Staln, untill or unless Manchuria been attacked and Stalin became belligerent.
    Minister Korechika (Army) was prepared to run his army which was still at its strength to inflict high casualties on the US forces when they invaded (against Op Downfall?).
    Meanwhile, Japanese Supreme Council still have been discussing the importance of Russian neutrality, but all they closed, as soon as Stalin's men rolled onto Manchuria!
    Now the Diplomats as well as the JWD motivated to capitulate unconditionally but only to the US and her allies.
    Meanwhile, a very tension aroused .. had Stalin let his men rolled into the Island by ignoring Gen Derevyanko's advise, we would then have seen another bitter Cold war. So claps to the efforts given by Gen Derevyanko for being carried out as what Gen MacArthur told him to do.
     
  9. Banjo

    Banjo Member

    Estimates based on the long slog to take Okinawa were that the Allies would suffer up to a million casualties in conquering the Home Islands and four to six million Japanese would die. The atomic bombs were a cheap way and, strange to say, a relatively humane way to end the war.
     
  10. Diptangshu

    Diptangshu Active Member

    Summer of '45 : Japanese slogan ~ "The sooner the American come, the better .... One hundred million die proudly."
    Foreign Minister Togo argued that Ketsu gõ (implemented by Hirohito) would destroy the Nation.
    Gen Anami retorted that those who can not fulfill their responsibility to the Emperor should commit hari kiri. Entire nation should resist the Americans to the Death.
    I think these all had been the part of the overall strategy of bleeding the Americans to force a negotiated peace. Stalin, who was then neutral, no extra headache, no threat from Russia!
    I also recalling the Shotango Victory Plan, that envisioned defending the home islands, to the last man, without surrendering. So the soldiers were assigned to the primary as well as high schools to train the pupils to defend themselves. Hitler forced his youths and olds to hold arms, but Hirohito launched a training (both the physical and psychological) programme nation wide alongwith propaganda like ... fighting to death against Americans, the spirit of the dead shall be specially greeted... I also noted that, the way the Japs faught throughout the War, much much more fiercefully than the Germans!
    However, again I'm bound to mention that due to Gen MacArthur, there was no Wall being constructed partitioning East Tokyo/West Tokyo, after the capitulation unlike the Berlin! The other thing that oftenly bothers me that the Japs somehow been highly Under-estimated from the very begining of the War.
    http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm
     
  11. Interrogator#6

    Interrogator#6 Active Member

    There was a considerable amount of variance between the image of the Japanese which was sold to the American John Q. Public and the Japanese as understood by 'the experts'. The public were told the Jap was a nearsighted, buck-toothed, blood soaked and treacherous fiend on the battlefield. The experts knew the Japanese were a skilled and dedicated technician, sensative natured, hard-working and athletic soldier, well-trained and usually dedicated to a cause for which he was trained since an early age.

    During the era of the Meiji Restoration (circa 1868) through 1945 there existed in Japan the policy of State Shinto, a national religion and educational system. One should distinguish this from Temple Shinto (or Folk Shinto) which differs in many ways from State Shinto. Temple Shinto persists while the American banished State Shinto. But there were elements of Temple Shinto which bled into State Shinto which makes the study of the entire topic somewhat muddled.
     
  12. Banjo

    Banjo Member

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  13. Alexander

    Alexander Member

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