Discussion in 'Revolutionary War' started by Pamela Jo, Dec 16, 2006.
But the Indians were so wise. I wonder how they let themselves get in that mess?
The Indians were wise, but trusting. Who would think that people that arrived on your shores just a few years before, tired and hungry; people you fed to prevent starvation, would turn on you the way the settlers did. Remember, gold and precious metals were not important to the Indians. In fact, neither was land. The greedy settlers wanted it al.
Well we were ignorant. We blamed the Natives for all sorts of things. People were downright afraid of them. If they saw one, they would try to kill them. Greed also plays a huge role, no doubt.
There has never been enough of anything, according to us humans! Humans, no matter the race, always mess things up.
I think one big reason why the natives lost was because we brought so much disease with us. They had never experienced this before and they died in droves. They didn't know how to counter it and they just kept dying.
This is not the history I've read. How exactly did the settlers turn on them? Are you seriously saying the Indians didn't instigate anything? If they didn't have a concept of land, how is it that they sold large portions of it. If I'm not mistaken, all of Maryland was bought from them.
The Revolution began way before the Boston Tea Party. It really had little to do with taxes either. Gary Nash gives a good explanation in The Unknown American Revolution. Independence was not desired by almost any colonists until after the Tea Party and even then those people were a distinct minority of dissidents until late 1775 and early 1776. Thomas Paine's Common Sense capped the mental shift from dissatisfaction to dismemberment for many outside of New England which was necessary if the colonies were going to unite and fight as a nation seeking independence rather than appeasement.
Exactly. I have read that smallpox alone caused the death of more than 50% of the pre-Colombian native population in North America. Magnifying the epidemic, the settlers engaged in biological warfare, by gifting the unsuspecting Indians blankets and clothes infected with the smallpox virus.
DeSoto's journey through Southeastern America wrought immense devastation through disease unwittingly and destroyed at least two major Indian cultures. Disease may have wiped out almost 90% of the entire pre-Columbian population in the Americas. The dearth of manpower due to disease can be directly attributed to both Aztec and Incan losses. Without the diseases killing off thousands of Indians the Spanish would have been wiped out in both attempts. The smallpox blanket episode stems from the Seven Year's War when British soldiers were instructed to give smallpox victim's blankets to Indians on purpose with the stated hopes of infecting the Indians. (Ian K. Steele, Warpaths (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1994), 239.
The smallpox infections were sometimes deliberate, but a lot of times it was a result of carelessness from the European voyagers.
In the Aleutians, the Russians had no intention to infect the Unangan, as they were needed for collecting fur. Still one of the heaviest death rates due to smallpox was recorded there.
Thanks for that information Gloine. I'm definitely going to check out the unknown american revolution.
Well, we also brought back a few viruses ourselves, the most notable of which was the STD named Syphilis. The only thing is, it takes more time to kill.
Also it's not that the Native Americans were to trusting, it's just that they thought they found a new trading partner. And it the begging that was actually true.
Well, but I just found this and would like to share ....
I am not impressed ! Do you think its ok?
Ah! The Boston Tea Party. Here is one event of which so much is known, yet for so many so little is really understood. In a way it is a good representation of how poorly most Americans have learned the history of their own country. It has been morphed into an iconic meme, similarly to the way we understand the Minutemen irregulars stood up to the British regulars on Lexington Commons, something which did not happen but which has collectively crept into the average American mind.
The Boston Tea Party was a protest again British attempts to have the American colonies pay for their own administration and protection, something which had traditionally been heavily subsidized by the English Crown. To redress this the Crown put a tax on TEA being imported by the East India Company, who had a monopoly on such traffick. This tax was being passed on to the consumers, the ones who benefited by the protection of the Crown.
There was a Lodge of Freemasons who met regularly in Boston. Their times and location of meeting is known. It is also known they were the core of the "Indians" group, the 'protesters'.
Curiously enough, the 'Tea Party' took place in lieu of a lodge meeting.
And the modern 'TEA Party' may have been started by well meaning citizens, but it has been co-opted by some wealthy backers with a political agenda. It was never a large nor a powerful group until BIG MONEY took over, so that the reality is that these 'teabaggers' are mostly puppets for the likes of the Koch Brothers.
.... and the Rothschild ....
The comments on this thread supporting the Tea Party reminds me of those during the Civil war who justified the desires of the slavers through possibly deliberate misinterpretation of the bible. The Boston Tea Party always seemed to me like the an incident that was popularized after the Revolution with its images of oppressed colonist showing the meanevilnasty monarchy what they could do with his tea, and did not hold as much significance at the time on how things played out as some would think, then again that is my opinion.
Ah, alas, the TEA in question did not belong to the British Crown. It belonged to the East India Company. The Freemasons who threw it into the habour were not protesting the EIC but the idea that the Crown was attempting to have the colonists actually pay a part of the cost incurred by the Crown for their protection.
History teaches time and again that colonies are rarely, if ever, a way for the homeland to make money. Just look at the recent attempts by the USA to colonize Iraq and Afghanistan.
As long as we are on the subject of the TEA Party wing of the Republicans, when was the last time you heard about a Tea Party rally? Have you noticed that the Tea party seems to wane when Big Money does not have an issue to push or election to "influence"?
A hallmark attribute of a conservative is that they try to save money, or at least not "waste it" when there are other fish to fry. I hear tell that the Koch Brothers pay folks to go online and disrupt online conversations that are discussing political views that they are opposed to. I have witnessed this and find it amusing. It would be neat to be paid to do this. The Koch brothers are playing a dangerous game and have some questionable folks doing their foot work. I think they are trying to play both ends against the middle and when folks figure that out the Koch brothers had best get somewhere quick.
I, too, have heard of this "urban legend". I do not know how much credence to give to this, though I recall reading a report in supposedly truthful 'main stream media' outlet to this effect. I am not sure if it was the was the Koch Brothers, a coalition of big money oligarchs, a front organization (such as the Heritage Foundation) or what. I have witnessed in a 'chat room' the effects of what I did presume to have been this phenomena, but I do not have definitive proof.
The class-warfare struggle being waged by the oligarchs (Big Money) against the political rights or the majority of the people of the US scares me. It reminds me in a way of the situation in late eighteen century France, only more so. As you may be aware there was, a huge wealth gap between the Rich and Poor, and then, too, many of the richest avoided paying any taxes. And we all know what happened in 1789.
I sort of thought the Occupy Wall Street movement might have acted as a safety, to release something of the 'political steam' which has been building for sometime. But the situation was handled poorly (police violence) and now the oligarchs have both passed laws and created new 'security organizations' to suppress any new outbreaks of citizen free speech.
I have just been right in the middle of a internet troll invasion brought about by the Tea Party. They responded very negatively and semi-crudely to a Mother Jones story about Sen. Ted Cruz's father, and that is where I am seeing a lot of similarities between today and Hitler's rise to power, at least online troll invasions are not like the night of broken glass, it is still an indicator of energy being generated and manipulated with in the middle class. Their fears are being stoked by the oligarchs, they are mad as hell and they are ready to fight. Historically that has been a method in maintaining power, distraction and misdirection. The Tea Party members claim to be patriots in the spirit of this event, yet all I see is some good folks being manipulated by the oligarchs. It ain't the bottom of the ninth yet, yet I do see some hard times in our future. If folks take the time to research they will see some disturbing things that need some minor attention now, if the majority waits, then the minority will pull the wool over their eyes again, and will become a more dire situation.
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