Sooo.... This New Malaysian Airlines Thing

Discussion in 'Other Conflicts' started by Kate, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    What do you all think will happen with the passenger airline just shot down today in Ukraine? More tensions with Russia and the world as a whole, or will it be glazed over?

    I've heard commentary that Russia will try to blame it on the separatists, but no one believes that Russia would have equipped them with the technology/hardware to shoot an airline out of the sky at 35,000 feet. Seems to be something only military could do in this scenario.

    Agree... or no?
  2. skynel_27

    skynel_27 New Member

    Oh, I just watched CNN today and it's very saddening. With all these wars, civilians are the ones acting as collateral damage. It's just too much to take.
  3. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    So how do you think it will resolve, @skynel_27 ? There's always collateral damage in war that the group who did it tries to push on someone else... but I was asking what everyone thinks the outcome will be whether or not it was Russia's missile that shot the plane down.
  4. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    I may have to revise my statement from yesterday! Of course the facts keep changing while an investigation is ongoing, but at the moment, it looks as if perhaps Russia did indeed have them equipped to do this heinous act, accident or not.

    (And for the record, I fully believe they didn't mean to shoot a passenger jet down... I mean who would be *that* foolish?!)
  5. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    @ Kate,
    I disagree.
    Russia has nothing to gain to shoot down a civilian airline at the time like this. They are already being sanctioned by the US led NATO. Shooting down a commercial airline would just further isolate themselves.

    I am not jumping into conclusion, but since current Ukraine government had a history of hiring snipers to shoot at civilians (from leaked phone calls) then blamed it on the former Ukraine president in order to start the violence for their little coup (and they succeed)... I wouldn't surprised if it's Ukraine or a third party is trying to frame Russia in order to gain "legitimate" for further sanctions against Russia. (Hint: all those false chemical attacks in Syria... sounds familiar?)

    The current Ukraine government is not legit since it wasn't from an election but rather from a coup with foreign aid. The domestically elected president was a legit president. But I guess whoever the US government supports is "legit".
  6. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Good morning, vashstampede... and thank you for the reply. Oh, there's nothing at all to disagree with here. There's no way I think Russia (or anyone else for that matter, but I can be naive) would intentionally shoot down a passenger jet. There's just not place in my mind to consider anyone would think that would be wise. I meant accidentally, and every military in the world has done that at some point... "friendly fire." I never for a minute considered that Russia would have made the decision intentionally.

    [/quote] I am not jumping into conclusion, but since current Ukraine government had a history of hiring snipers to shoot at civilians (from leaked phone calls) then

    Didn't I hear that every independent source now has determined that the missile came from the Russian-backed separatists? I don't like a lot of today's much too far advanced technology, but I do think it's advanced enough for them to know exactly where something like a missile was fired.

    I'm not sure why you mentioned the U.S. here... as far as I know, there may have been 1 American passenger. This news is coming from the rest of the world who *did* have their citizens shot down.
  7. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    Excuse me if I mistook your meaning as Russians were intentionally.

    The way you said in the first post
    "I've heard commentary that Russia will try to blame it on the separatists, but no one believes that Russia would have equipped them with the technology/hardware to shoot an airline out of the sky at 35,000 feet. Seems to be something only military could do in this scenario."

    sounds like you are certain it was the Russians who shot down the plane. Then you made them look more guilty by stating they are trying to covering it up.

    The bottom line is, the real conclusion isn't here yet. Ukraine along with every country who had sanctioned Russia have everything to gain by blaming it on the Russians.
  8. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    You need to keep in mind that this conversation was ongoing since the very first news reports. And those (I might add *international*) news reports have all said that Russian backed separatists fired the missile. So "blaming"... well no, I don't think anyone did it on purpose.

    But are you saying that you do not believe the international reports are correct? If so, that's very interesting. Could you paste a link that supports your view? I'd like to read it and see "the other side." I wasn't aware there was one so I'd love to read it.

    I'm not sure what I said to make you misunderstand, but no, I never even indicated that I though Russia shot a passenger plane down on purpose because I never believed that. If I said something that wasn't clear and indicated that I felt that way, I apologize.
  9. skynel_27

    skynel_27 New Member

    Well, I do believe that someone would be held liable with what happened but along with this, we should start working on world peace too.
  10. Peninha

    Peninha Member

    Who will be held liable skynel? We all know that the Russians are responsible for what happened, but who dares to face a country with nuclear weapons? It's the cold war happening all over again...
  11. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    This is true... and I think you're right about the cold war. Well, unless it gets so bad that it's no longer "cold" which seems more possible than it did just a few months ago.

    As for who'll be held responsible... I am floored when I hear someone indicating that there's no evidence that Russia was involved somehow... because that part is behind us and it's been established. But not intentionally... Putin is much smarter than that.

    Some people just automatically take "the other side" I think. Tell them the grass is green and they'll argue just to hear themselves talk.
  12. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Ah yes, whirled peas... the goal of society for.... what? How many centuries? If everyone would strive for the same, it may actually be possible.

    But there are countries and groups who are perfectly happy to spread the evilness and terror... last thing on their mind is world peace, sadly. :oops:
  13. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    May I ask what "international news" have you seen them from?
    80~90% of the news agencies in the US and western Europe are controlled by a handful of corporations.

    I do remember when Georgia invaded South Ossetia (bombarding South Ossetia capital city during the night and killed over 1,000 civilians) before rolling in the tanks, which promoted a Russian counter-attack, all "international news" reported it as "Russia invaded Georgia".

    I do remember when a US submarine hunting ship appeared close to China's Hainan province where a new nuclear submarine base was just built, and it was intercepted by multiple Chinese ships after refuse to change its course. All "international news" reported it as "China harassed US ship in international water".

    Most recently, when over 30 Vietnamese ships went to harass the Chines oil rig 10miles off the Chinese controlled Paracel islands (dead in the middle between Vietnam and China...within the EEZ of both countries, but under Chinese actual control for four decades), all the "international news" reported it as "China placed an oil rig off Vietnam" and "Chinese ships rammed Vietnamese ships off Vietnam".

    The list can go on. Excuse me, but I do not find "international news" trustworthy when it is all from a handful corporations who probably have contracts with a certain government(s).
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  14. Peninha

    Peninha Member

    Russia was totally involved and economic sanctions must be harsh, but apart from that I don't see what can be done. Russia has China backing them now, so I don't know what economic sanctions will do, possibly nothing.
  15. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Yes... I don't think it would probably do much good either... but I think the important thing is sending a message, not "punishing" them for something that wasn't (hopefully!) done with intention.

    I agree about the involvement, as most outside of Russia do, but apparently everyone here doesn't. ;)
  16. May102014

    May102014 New Member

    I am truly at a lost for words about this tragedy. What makes it more heartbreaking was the fact the plane had clearance to travel over that area from an official in Russia. I feel it was done out of pure malice and to ignite conflict from other countries on the world's stage. Russia was behind it and although their technology is sub par at best, they want to play with in the big leagues so badly and show the world Russia's "superiority."
    Kate likes this.
  17. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    I've not heard anyone say they felt it was done on purpose until now, May. Interesting thoughts here, and I'm glad you shared them. It wouldn't be the first time something was done to "ignite conflict" as you said... but I sure hope that's not right. I know I can be naive, but something like that would take a certain kind of evil that I can't even comprehend. :(

    An official clearing the plane wouldn't necessarily know that the separatists were going to shoot it down with a Russian-supplied missile, though... or do you mean that's what you think *did* happen?
  18. trose7

    trose7 New Member

    I was reading that the Russians had moved that launcher into place a few days earlier and after the missile shot down the plane they moved it back into Russia. Seems like they had more to do with it then they're letting on.
  19. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    The part "reading" and "heard" or "saw" was all from the same presses who want to demonize Russia on daily basis.

    It is just the same as "activists say", "eyewitness saw" each type of "quotes" from mainstream propaganda. It is not trustworthy. Often time the truth is between lines for you to discover.

    Like how I caught the lie of "Russia invaded Georgia" when I noticed the silly articles actually had a photo of Georgian tanks were burning on the streets of South Ossetia capital city. That's when I realized that Georgia was the aggressor.

    I am not saying that I completely disbelieve it as the "rebel" or the Russians who shot down the jet, but it is too easy to tell. All the "free" press already pointed finger at the Russia, so do all their readers (you haha).
  20. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Are you at all familiar with the way in which technology-advanced nations gather intelligence data? Intelligence from many *many* countries showed exactly from where that missile was fired and here you sit trying to come with a conspiracy theory.

    Now, can you honestly say that you think all this intelligence data indicated that Ukraine fired that missile and the media (you've stated how you feel about the media!) decided to report that the separatists shot it down just to... what? "be mean to Russia?" That's bizarre.

    I know the media spins (often!) but you seriously think ANY media organization (well, one from a developed country, I should say) would report the totally opposite facts just to be mean to Russia? Wow. Spinning a news story is 100% different than making up or lying about the news!

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