What happens if the Japanese of the early/mid 20th century were actually more decent capitalised people than many of them were, not a overly aggresive people or fighting wars even in China. No war mongers and paying good money for their imports which are used properly. What would happen in the European and African theatres? The war with Germany goes 'allmost' the same as it did up untill early to mid 1942. Russian war happens as it did however their is room for changes due to there being no Japanese war. Will the USA still send Lend Lease items? If not at same levels or under same type of contracts, then at what levels and /or what type of contracts or under what kind of arrangment? What will bring the USA into the war and when? What invasions from the West will happen, when and how? What will be done in Africa to defeat Rommel? What other troops would become available due to no Japanese war or agression? (maybe Indian, other Commonwealth as well as what other Allies)? I will go away and think of some possibilities and return to post soon. Have fun it's not that serious it is a what if. Regards Cbbr
No Japanese in WW2 or in any war during 1920-1945 Firstly Being a Aussie I would say that by early 1942 all four Aussie Inft Divisions the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th AIF Infantry Divs as well as 1st AIF Armoured would of been at full strength by March/April 1942 and the Aussie Govt would of demanded that they be used as a combined force where possible which in the Western Desert could of been very possible. These extra two Aussie Infantry corps with Armour would of strengthened the 8th Army greatly and with the British Divisions who became available at this time along with the Free European units and other Commonwealth Divisions ( in particular the Indian Army), they may have had the capability to push Rommel way back to Tripoli and held him their much easier. With a Canadian and Brit landing in an earlier version of Operation Torch the desert war could have possibly have been over a year earlier. Though a early operation Torch with the Canadian army would mean no Dieppe raid, so Canadians would not of been mauled so badly and would of been fit and willing to go up against the Vichy french, Canadians being used in this invasion for same reasons that USA troops were used in the actual happenings. (They hoped the Vichy French would not fire on US troops and would be more prone to surrender than if they were up against a Brit heavy invasion force. With naught to do out side the western desert in 1942 much more could of been done by the Divisions/Corps in the fighting against Rommel in the Desert. How many AIF Divs would of ended up in Greece would be interesting as the Brit GOC in real time wanted two AIF and one NZ Div along with a Bgd of Brit tanks. This was cut back to just the 6th AIF, 2nd NZ & Brit Tanks, as Rommel had made his first moves and Tobruk was under siege very quickly with the 7th AIF needed to be rushed to Tobruk and as a line of defence at Egyptian border area. However initially the Axis would prevail but with ever increasing troops the desert war may well have been over up to a year earlier. The Aussies were capable of being used as a two corps force, so 4 infantry divisions and one Armoured plus the possibility of a extra armoured brigade possible the Army Tank Brigade, and maybe another Allied Div or two attached that would had filled the force out to a Army size unit of six infantry and 1 1/2 Armoured. Making for a minimum of two (2) Armies 8th and one with Aust & Imperial troops. Possibly more with the Indians arriving in ever increasing numbers and of cause the British Divisions who were finally able to be released from home defence. So my first thoughts go to the massive increase of trained and Brit & USA equipped troops (lend lease still is going on and with the initial reverse's increased)). Allied troops from so many nations I believe would of destroyed the Africa Corps and its Italian comrades after some serious and long heavy fighting. Tobruk I expect would of been relieved by early 1942. More to come. Any one else got a idea about any aspect of the war and the USA, joining the fight and supplying everyone. I would of loved to see heavier armed Brit and US Tanks.
Have you thought of adding the Japanese Army to the Allied army as well. After all they fought on the Allied side during WW1 so its possible that they would of joined the Allied had they not had their own agenda. Sounds like it would of been everyone against the Germans and Italians. Most of the Japanese people in the early to mid thirties were decent people, hard working and trying to raise a family just like we do today. There were war mongers on both the Allied and Axis powers sides. On all sides there were atrocities commited and yes i realise that the Japanese commited probably a lot more than the other players in WW2 but not all Japanese soldiers were brutal. It was not the way of the true Samurai code to mistreat prisoners, that was corrupted during the inter war years. Sniper
Well said Sniper a good bio of the japanese people prior to WW2, The madness that infected the IJA, IJN and their Air Force during the war years, etc seemed to stop as soon as they came to terms with absolute surrender which actually did not take that long especially for a military so wide spread
With Japan not in the war or an Ally, how do you get Hitler to declare war on the US and bring them into the conflict? The only reason the US came into the war was Pearl Harbor and Hitlers subsequent support of Japan with a declaration of war on the US. Cheers Geoff
That is the tricky thing about this thread when and how do the USA get involved. Certainly could of been a couple of years further down the track. However with the assumption that it's only Germany and Italy the war would take many turns yet i expect that lend lease and so on would be available to a certain and increasing extent. So with Britain and the Commonwealth along with Other nations troops would of slowly but surely pushed the Germans and Vichy french out of Africa, the landings onto the European main land would of been a very large ask, however I believe that it would be possible as long as things were not rushed. Also as long as the Soviets kept up their fight which they did the Anglo led forces would increase from late 1941 onwards with more formations being able to join the fight in Africa. Sorry no good ideas just using a broad brush stroke
For Japan to be un-involved or even an ally during WWII, it would have required a lot of concessions by the Allies to the Japanese. The Allies would have to turn a blind eye to what the Japanese have been doing in China, Manchuria, Korea way before the clouds of war stirred in Europe. Then another blind eye when Japan launched its East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere, a polite way of describing Japanese colonization of Asia. No Pearl Harbor, no US participation. Unless, a Lusitania-like event happened. But then the German Navy have already been sinking US ships in the Atlantic, yet US won't join the fray. No US would mean heavy reliance on Soviets to contain Axis in Europe and then perhaps heavier Indian/Pakistani forces in African and Southern European theaters.
