Is This True Re: Stalin and Korea?

Discussion in 'Korean War' started by Kate, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    I know very little about the Korean War... so any bit of information I pick up is generally new to me. (That's my disclaimer in case this question is something everyone else already knows as a no-brainer. :) )

    I also don't believe everything I read on the Internet :rolleyes: so is it true that when Stalin told Kim Il Sung to go ahead and invade South Korea, he did it because he (Stalin) thought the US didn't have any interest in Korea?

    And if so, what do you think the US's main interest there *was?*
    Peninha likes this.
  2. prey

    prey New Member

    To answer what the USA's interests were and - currently - are, they simply want to leech other countries' resources and, potentially, let in behind them their infectious democracy system, like they permanently try to do in the Near East. They simply want to be everywhere, to spread their propaganda, to unite all the countries all-in-one, without realizing that they go too deep in some countries' businesses and that they will rather not succeed in doing such.

    As to what concerns the Korean War, it simply goes like this: After Japan devastated the Korea peninsula, they left the people from Korea rather poor, without any further hopes left. Some people decided that communism was the future, so they took the northern part of Korea and started their life, and the others considered that democracy was the way to follow, so they took the southern part of Korea and started their life. So, this way North Korea and South Korea were made. North Korea, because they opted for communism, had China and Stalin's Russia by their side, and South Korea had only the USA back then ( how surprising... ). As of today, no armistice has been signed since their separation and they're in a permanent state of war. Their border is the most surprising one from the world, so I suggest you to look it up...
    Peninha likes this.
  3. Peninha

    Peninha Member

    Good thread Kate and good post prey, interesting history about Korea, I never knew how this has happened, so it's another blank filled in my mind. Japan destroyed Korea in WW2 right?
  4. prey

    prey New Member

    That's partially true, Peninha. Their occupation didn't start in WW2, but in 1910. Beside the fact that they deliberately pillaged the country, they left innocently-enough to be considered "unguilty" by the USA and its allies, without any further repercussions - yet -. Coincidence? I strongly think not. :)
    Russia didn't bear the fact that Japan simply trod away from the situation, so they declared war to them. After long interventions, disputes and a "cold war", Russia and the USA eventually agreed to split the peninsula in two: The South and North ( the Southern part belonged to USA, led by democracy, the Northern part belonged to Russia, led by communism, a marxist-leninist one, although nobody's sure about their current ideology, it's pretty hard to define as they don't disclose any sensitive informations about them).
    Anyway, their government is slowly collapsing as days pass, but we will not see this soon because they're founded by Russia and China with suppliments to survive, as they can't provide their own.
    As a matter of fact, I've been in NK in 2011. The process to get in that country is truly tedious and you'd rather just spend the money ( around $1000 per person) to go in Seychelles or Abu Dhabi, but what's catchy about it is that, upon entering the country, you get to know a community that has been brainwashed until today with false propaganda and TV that continuously praises their Great Leader, without any connections to the outside world. Hell, their education system is focused on teaching people that they're the most economically-stable country in the world, that South Korea, along with the USA are their enemies which try to leech them out, and, obviously, they are told to praise their eternal president, Kim Ir Sen, along with the Supreme Leader, Kim Jong Un.
    You may consider that they're sad, but let me tell you that you can't see any kind of empathy left on their faces. They're just robots. They wake up in the morning, wander obliviously in the street to reach their work and, upon finishing, they go home and sleep. It's pretty clear that they consider all this normal, and that a change will eventually make them rather sad, because they wouldn't be used with our definition of freedom and will not change for anything, so an eventual unsplit of the peninsula is infeasible to achieve. We'd be better to just not get implicated, they don't have anything to explain anyway. They haven't even officially signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, so we shouldn't expect some organizations to interfere in their business. They're covered by the left communists of the world.

    P.S. : If you're interested to see what kind of things they get on TV, then check out this channel on Youtube: stimmekoreas.
    P.S. 2: It might seem ambiguous that I said the people chose their destiny, then say that the USA and Russia decided the fate of the peninsula. I must correct myself in this situation: The people had influence, too, but the USA and Russia had the final word afterwards.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    Peninha likes this.
  5. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    While North Korea was certainly a dictatorship, South Korea wasn't formed as a democracy either. It wasn't until the 1980s before they were close to a "democracy". The bottom line is the US government doesn't care about "democracy" or not. It's either "pro-US" or not. Any regime is pro-US government, will get US support. Otherwise might as well wait for a US supported(sponsored really) "coup" or "rebel".

    There were plenty of massacres took place in South Korea before/during/after Korean War where "communist sympathizers" were executed without a trial, including their families. Several mass graves were discovered recently with remains of kids as young as 2~3 years old amongst the dead.
  6. aghart

    aghart Former Tank Commander Moderator

    Kate, Stalin was happy for North Korea to invade the south as it meant further advancement of Communism, he also thought that the war would be over before the west could react. The USA sent forces from Japan to help South Korea, their interest was to stop the advancement of Communism. The UN then condemned the attack by North Korea and passed a motion to send UN military forces to aid S Korea. The Soviet Union could not veto this as their representative had been withdrawn in protest at something else. Although the US was by far the largest contingent of forces sent to aid South Korea the conflict became North Korea vs the United Nations.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  7. ReDGuNNeR

    ReDGuNNeR New Member

    My school sort of glossed over this conflict after the triumph of World War II. When I think about, the Korean War topic was completely avoided and so was the Vietnam War apart from some of the perspective of what was going on in the country at the time and the famous protests. The history books basically went straight from WW2 to the original Desert Storm operation and these gaps were never filled in for me so I appreciate the large summary that was written by Prey.

    Everyone knows about N. Korea and its oppressiveness but how did it get so bad? Thanks for sharing this side of history :)
  8. Peninha

    Peninha Member

    Another great post here! :) I feel the same, both the US and Russia have been deciding the fate of the world in the last decades for their own profit I believe.
  9. billion57

    billion57 New Member

    In response to ReDGuNNeR's question, it actually seems to be interesting how North Korea declined- it actually had a faster-growing economy compared to South Korea, until the 1960s. Then, China started becoming more friendly to the U.S. (Kissinger and detente), so North Korea started cutting ties with it. Kim Il Sung reinforced his Juche ideas, and put forward policy that created self-reliance. The economy started to stagnate, and the 1991 collapse of the USSR was a heavy blow.
    As for how it became a 1984-like totalitarian state, I'm not too sure, although I'd say it lies in the same Juche policy- self-reliance turned nationalism turned religion.
  10. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50 Active Member

    You're pretty studied up on the Korean question, but I really don't get your idea of you saying that the U.S. is "leeching" other countries. I have one for you. We won in WWII and literally not only did not take over the countries we beat, but we sent food, supplies, and the money and man power to rebuild their countries. If we seriously wanted to Leech and take over we could have done that on several occasions but not as another country, but as part of the U.S. One other little tid bit you obviously do not know. China owns land and businesses in the U.S. Japan owns more of Arizona than Americans do. Whoever wants to come here and contribute or just plain buy the land out from under us...can. I doubt seriously if Kenyas' policies are anywhere near as loose as they are here. Most countries ask us for help, but from the Revolutionary war all the way through history, although a couple of countries have come to our aid, we ask very little in comparison from any one else.

    I love the fact that you have some knowledge...but I think that you will find Americans rarely put down the U.S.A. We may gripe about people places and things and especially polititians who are supposed to be running things...but we do not put our country down. You, my friend, are welcome. I trust you have had a nice stay in my country.
  11. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Maybe you'll get a satisfactory answer here... but I really wouldn't hold my breath too long... that could be dangerous. America bashing has become so in vogue that guess what... the bashers don't even need to use true facts any longer. Anything that sounds 1/4 believable... hey, throw it out there, some of it will stick.

    I agree with you that Americans don't put down our country (putting down the way things are run is a different animal.) People from other places *living* here probably do, but not Americans... at least not when it counts.

    The thing that bugs me most is people whining that America "polices the world"... and I say good gracious, who the heck else is going to do the job.? As soon as America would become a nation of wimps and NOT "police", those same people would be bellyaching when the "bad guys" take over their own country and we didn't go to help.
  12. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50 Active Member

    Thanks Kate for the back up. After I wrote my small reply, without proof reading I might add, my wife pointed out that " prey" doesn't really exist any longer. At least not by that name. I was just pretty hot when I read his idiousy. It was a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" moment. I just don't know how to cope with some of it anymore.

    I used to run a couple of programs for the homeless, and in particular, homeless vets. One thing I used to literally pound into my students was the fact that they didn't get into the program to change the program, but to let the program change them. People come to this country because they dislike what is happening in their country, but when they get here they try to change this one to match what they were used to before they left! Don't come here to change this country, let our country give them the change they were looking for before they came here!

    There are a heck of a lot of things here that are making me sick and pretty broken hearted. Particularly the way these polititians are trying to change our constitution and actually doing it, all of the race baiting, and downright corruption going on. That being true, by pure merit that the world population is trying to move here is proof of our factual exceptionalism.
  13. DancingLady

    DancingLady Member

    Stalin wanted to spread communism wherever possible, so he supported North Korea because they were communist.

    North Korea is such a tragic place. People can't show how they really feel for fear they will be arrested and disappear. Their entire lives they are just trying to survive, and those who refuse to worship their leader will not survive long in the country.
  14. GearZ

    GearZ Member

    The short answer is yes. has an interesting piece on that very topic entitled "Korean War: A Fresh Perspective". The Soviets didn't believe the US had any interest in the Korean peninsula, but found out otherwise.

    Also From Mao, Stalin and the Korean War: Trilateral Communist Relations in the 1950s, by Shen Zhihua (Routledge, 2012):

    Khrushchev held that Stalin and Mao jointly gave the green light to Kim Il-sung to launch the war. However, Peng firmly believed that Mao did not agree and even opposed starting the war
    And from Stalin's Wars: From World War to Cold War, 1939-1953, by. Geoffrey Roberts (Yale, 2008).

    In 1950 North Korea invaded South Korea with the aim of unifying the country under the communist leadership of Kim Il Sung. The invasion had Stalin's blessing and support but when the United States intervened on South Korea's behalf he quickly backed away from direct confrontation with the Americans.
  15. Rhoda DEttore

    Rhoda DEttore New Member

    Personally, I think Stalin was a user and manipulator. He is like one of those schoolboys who gets two kids to fight, then stands back and watches. When the winner is pronounced, he'd pat the back, "I knew you could do it." And no one called him on the influence of the fighting.

    It is quite possible Stalin knew the US would intervene and the whole mess could be blamed on Korea and he would have plausible deniability.

    Of course, keep in mind that in 1950, the US's intervention policies were only a few decades old. Before that, we abide by a policy of isolationism. From WWI on, a whole new creation of policy and agendas were created and the nations were still feeling each other out.

    After WII, the Potsdam Conference designated Germany be divided up between the US, France, Britain and Russia. Stalin had gone from being an member of the Axis of Evil to an ally during the war. But tensions grew during the division of Germany. This was finalized in 1949. When living conditions in West Germany proved better than the East Germany controlled by Russia, mass emigrations took place.

    This sets the mood for Stalin in Korea. Stalin already had some serious issues with the US, but using Korea to be the aggressor rather than invading himself made him look "less evil".

    As far as Americans and how they feel about their country... I do in fact think we get involved in WAY too many things. We should take some time to back off the world, fix our domestic problems, economy and improve our education standards. Only then will we be able to assist others who need it.

    Empires throughout the millennium have spread themselves too thin and then grew so weak they were easily penetrated by their enemies. Look at Rome. If you want proof that we are already headed in that direction.. take a look a video about the deterioration of Detroit. Look at the abandoned shopping malls and factories. We don't need to go to Rome to see the collesium, we have one in our own country.

    Personally, I would rather we put our resources to good use here. We need to change the tax codes to make things more fair, and we need to get ride of loopholes. Make the tax codes such that it would be more expensive for corporations to ship our jobs out. Get rid of NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO.

    Type in abandoned america in youtube and you will be horrified at what is going on here. So I seriously

  16. nailah783

    nailah783 Member

    You all have a lot of good information here. I will say that there is a lot on American History that has been covered up from the American public, but a lot of times America is there to help other countries. I guess it depends on who is the president at the time, and if they can really find anything worth it to take. As far as the Korean war, it is true that they don't really tell you much about this in school, but that is exactly why you have to do research for yourself.

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