Hmmmmmm. About time I added something about this aircraft ... or rather my connections. Over in Picton ... top N.E. corner of New Zealands South island for those who do not want to drag the old school atlas out ... the local volunteer ambulance members advertised for additional troops. As we had them out three times for Madeleine and I was still on tankers doing 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off I was volunteered by SWMBO. That started me off on a 12 year fascination with ambulance work. Anyway I used to do every Wednesday with my mate Ken. Ken Grosse and although a Kiwi served with 75 Squadron during the war doing one and a half tours as flight engineer on Lancasters. To even complete one tour without being killed was one thing but to go on is even more miraculous. An absolutely lovely bloke he related a few tales of what it was like. They ditched in the North Sea once and chopped the tail fin off another aircraft during a bombing run in Northern France another time as either the other aircraft released their bombs and rose up or VV. They eventually moved to Auckland, he became a victim of Alzheimers and he sadly passed away soon after. The next item is that I picked up a book in a second hand shop in Christchurch discovering a photo of a bomber crew under their Lancaster. They let me take the photo and I posted it on the website for RAF crews. I received regular updates from the website for a good two and a half years. Then suddenly out of the blue I got an e-mail from a chap up in Whangarei of all places .. just North of Auckland. One of the crew was his relative ..... at present I have forgotten where in the devil I put the actual photo but printed off another and sent it to them.....attached. Anyone else with information about this aircraft, the crew or squadron I would be very interested to hear.
Is this a typo, Barnsey, as 75 was the Kiwi squadron? A wonderful photo to find. I don't recognise any of the names, not that I expected to, but the airfield appears to be Wigsley: RAF Wigsley airfield, 1942-58 RAF-lincolnshire.info :: Wigsley So, these guys could be with 1654 HCU? Doesn't exactly narrow it down, I know but hope it helps.
Found this with regard to Morris Marshall, the bomb aimer, who, it appears was/is a Kiwi: Air Force Poetry - about half way down. Based on this I've had a check through my copy of Max Lambert's Night after Night - New Zealanders in Bomber Command (one of the best books on BC IMHO) but have no reference to any of these names. However, that's just one source. I imagine some of the guys on here will have more for you.
Andy, With regards to Ken and 75 Squadron. I bow to your superior knowledge after all, I am totally out of my field as I am but a Merchant Seafarer ...... seriously though could it have been the other way round that Ken was an Englishman in the Kiwi squadron ? I vaguely remember him saying something in relation to that sort of thing. But after the war he flew Catalinas here in the RNZAF so I am probably going to blame either my ears or memory for getting things muddled up.........RIGHT!!! Try this, there is one other good friend who flew Spitfires with 43 Squadron The Fighting Cocks in North Africa and Italy and he's Kiwi but 43 Squadrion is ... English. Hows that? He is "Bunty" Bunt, another fine fellow still going strong in Picton. Humble apologies eveyone .... but thanks for all your interest lets keep it going re the Lancaster crew ....
OK Folks ... here is the information I got back re the photos of the Lancaster crew... "Hello Mr Barnes, My Grandfather is quite ill at the moment and i have been searching online to see if I can spot any involvment he had in WWII of which he was always quite reluctant to speak about. I have stumbled across this site and I believe the navigator on this flight was Kenneth George Skudder, my grandfather. The information that I had was that he was a navigator on Lancaster bombers I don't have much more information than that but my mother may know more than I do. Please email back I would love to see a copy of the photo. Dean Campbell " So of course I sent him the photos ... his reply .... "Hi David, I thought with it being so long ago that you pasted the request that you may have moved on. My Grandfather Ken was diagnosed on Friday with Terminal Cancer. He also has alzheimers but has a very good memory of older events just a lack of short term memory at the moment. He doesn't talk about it very much but lately has been recounting stories to one of my cousins while she was looking after him. He lives in Whangarei, and is currently having a minor op to help with eating and will going in for major surgery in two weeks in Auckland. I will try and call him and ask him if he recalls the names of the people and the squadron/aircraft numbers. I know that he had something to do with the Dam Busters mission although I do not believe he took part I think he was trained as a reserve. He was a little younger comparatively to some others as he lied about his age to take part in the war although I know a large amount of NZers did this. I know that he trained in Canada, Scotland and England and traveled extensively in Europe I am not sure which of these places he actually fought in as if we asked he would turn it into a joke and change the subject. I haven't seen many photos of him but he is short, black hair, quite handsome (according to my mother, brill creamed etc) There was one of his comrades that lived in Christchurch he went to a reunion maybe 10 years ago and met up with him. My mother thought that he had died since but that Grandad would certainly remember as he does have very clear memories of those times. Just spoke to my Grandmother... She knows that Morris Marshall was living in Christchurch but has since passed away... Tom Hailes was from Christchurch and is unsure whether he is still alive. Ira Charles was from the South Island but she is not sure where or whether he is still alive. She was about to leave to go to the hospital... she said she will ask him about it and that I should talk to him and once again reiterated his good memory for that time in his life. Sorry the email was a bit disjointed I was talking to people at the same time. Regards Dean" So there we go ..... hows that for a days work then??? So when I get up tomorrow I fully expect all you fellows to have solved the problem of Squadron and aircraft number ..... get to it.
Sorry folks for being disjointed with this ... ( some will say I am just trying to increase my posts ... please don't ban me) Just checked the document I store this in and got Deans last e-mail ... Hi David, Just sent the scans to my mother. It definitely is my Grandfather. I also have some more information as he spoke to my uncle, also an enthusiast but from my Fathers side, a month ago. He was transferred to squadron 618 in 1944 so this photo may have been of his previous squadron. Squadron 618 although you will obviously know more than I do was one of the Dam Busters squadrons and that is the connection with them of course after those missions. We also have a full log book which is apparently in quite good condition. My Mother and Grandmother have placed the item in a safe place but I'm sure that they will be happy for me to photocopy the book for your perusual. That book will have the details of aircraft and previous squadrons etc. My uncle doubts that Ken was part of a New Zealand squadron as it was unusual for them to transfer away from other New Zealanders, so he would be interested to see if he was. I will email you in a few days don't feel oblidged to return email if you are busy at the moment. Dean All this was back in Feb .... I have been quite busy since and thats my fault. I will phone Dean tomorrow and catch up with events ... but I wont bore you lot anymore .... ha ha !! Ok Ok ... so you do want to know more ??? You will have to wait ... I'm off to bed and up early for the Rugby match ...should be a good one?
No such thing as superior knowledge and no need to apologise, mate, watch me flounder re the Merchant Navy! It's cool, Barnsey, I wasn't sure what you meant as to whether Ken was a Kiwi or not. 75 Sqn was initially equipped with Wellingtons that had been bought by the RNZAF for service in NZ. Then they went on to Stirlings and, eventually, Lancs. Although it was RAF as 75 (NZ) Sqn it later became part of the RNZAF. While largely crewed by Kiwis, the Squadron had men from other countries as well, including Australia. I like to refer to the RAF during the war as a melting pot for the Commonwealth. Your good friend who flew for 43 Sqn is nothing odd at all. It would have been quite likely that he was one of several non-British pilots at the time. There were, of course, RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF (don't know a lot about these but seem to be very South African as opposed to "mixed" units) and RCAF units, among others. A Sqn like 454 RAAF (Baltimores in the Med) had a good percentage of RAAF aircrew but alongside them were British, Kiwis etc - the same applied to the groundcrew as well. Indeed, the crew in your excellent pic could have a Kiwi, Aussie or a Canadian or two and might have ended up in any Lanc squadron. The camaraderie and sense of family, as alluded to by Keith in another thread from today must have been phenomenal. That's one of the things that fascinates me.
:lol: Amazing, Barnsey. Both Kitty and Kyt are well read on 618! Flew Mossies and were tasked with dropping Highball which used the same principal as Upkeep which was used on the dams. 618 ended up in Australia for deployment against Japanese surface targets but the Yanks thought it was too dangerous! The logbook will reveal all!
If it is OK with you, Barnsey, I will ask on rafcommands. Errol Martyn is a member, and he has written the definative three-volume biographical history of RNZAF members. The NZ names should all be in there
I would be very interested in seeing the log book because I have looked through the list of aircrew that served with 618, and Skudder does not appear. Of course, no book is definative but Curtis, the author of A Most Secret Squadron: The Sory of 618 Squadron, was a member of the squadron and seems to have a very comprehensive archive.
From the "New Zealand Electronic Text Cente." The link below might be of some help. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and follow some of those links. NZETC - Search Results
Here's a lengthy piece about 75 Squadron. Too long to cut and paste. CHAPTER 9 — The Part of No. 75 Squadron | NZETC
Kyte/Andy ... you go for whatever you think best ...you are the experts in this field go for it, its all in your hands ... I'll phone Dean and see if we can get the logbook details.
I think looking at the logbooks would be the best course. At the very least we should be able to get some Service Numbers to work with
Hi all, Have been in touch with george Skudders wife an hour ago. Sounds a lovely lady. George passed away a wee while ago after fighting the big "C". Someone local in Whangarei has borrowed the log book and items ... i said I hope he returns them to which she was most definite that he would. Apparantly writing booklet about Northland boys who went flying. I have left a message for Dean campbell to phone me also ..
This is getting very interesting indeed. Given the lack of records, the logbook/s etc are looking more and more valuable! The information will even help Errol out by the looks of it. Btw, Barnsey, Kyt's the expert, I am but a mere amateur...and a dodgy one at that!
