American Storm Troopers

Discussion in 'Other Conflicts' started by thomas pendrake, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake Active Member

    Following 9-11 the Federal government started a program of creating para-military police units in cities all across America, primarily in the form of "SWAT" units. Today, many small city police departments have heavily armed units that may need to be used once a decade. Unfortunately, the police seem to jump at any chance to play with their war toys. The result has been the creation of storm-trooper type police units in towns around America. Does anyone want to comment on this problem? My father and several uncles fought in WWII to keep storm-troopers out of America.
  2. Interrogator#6

    Interrogator#6 Active Member

    Thomas, you have opened a "can of worms", broached a dangerous topic which may lead lead to the destruction of this web-site. Your query is not strictly History but rather Politics and Current Events. Do we want this?
  3. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake Active Member

    This is current affairs, history in process. If the moderators object, The topic is being discussed elsewhere. The intent is to hear any experiences or views on the subject. I don't think the site is subject to being raided, and I believe most of the people on this site are pro-American enough to understand legitimacy of the debate. I only wish to offend aspiring Himmlers.
  4. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    I do not wish to comment on this, no. And I'll tell you why, even though that's a comment of its own making. I get sick to death of hearing things like this from pot-stirrers. Of course there are corrupt police officers. Just like there are corrupt men and women of the cloth... and corrupt doctors and probably corrupt garbage collectors... in every other sector.

    Maybe you wouldn't be so quick to condemn those "war toys" if an armed robber were breaking in and you needed the police? Or knowing your general location, a problem with a meth lab next door?

    Yep, yep, I'm pro-American enough to recognize those who will argue *anything* just to hear themselves talk and start controversy, ya know? Luring...

    As for whether this belongs here... I'd have to agree with @Interrogator#6 and say no because it's not really a "current affairs and history" forum, it's MILITARY. Now, I know we get off on tangents (with me probably being one of the worst offenders :oops: ) but premeditating a tangent or "can of worms" as Interrogator mentioned, is a different animal.

    Am I going to sit here and tear down our police forces when bashers are already trying their best to cause problems? Nosireebub, not gonna happen. There... how's THAT for a non-comment?!
  5. preacherbob50

    preacherbob50 Active Member

    Yes Kate, I have to admit, I am used to no-comments which range from 2 words (no comment) to something akin to a copy of "War and Peace." My wife has trained me exceedingly well to accept such "no-comments." I believe I am now ready to write a thesis regarding the two words and accept my PhD in the matter.

    I have to largely agree with you Kate. I am not really sure of the reasoning behind the thread except to stir a debate (which it seems was extremely successful) but to say the least I do not deem the writing of it is real military history. Police history maybe by a stretch, but definitely not militarian. There is indeed way too much (can I say "crap" in this forum?) stuff going on in the U.S.A. which makes all of us look like immature pubescent children.
  6. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Actually I don't think it stirred a debate at all... at least not so far and I hope it doesn't. I considered it a pest like a mosquito (I'm not a bug fan... ick!) and had to state that I'm not going to beat up police officers. I'm sure there are forums that enjoy that kind of time waster... but I won't be a member there. ;)

    No, you can not say that... take it back immediately! hehe JUST kidding! Yes, there's a lot going on that is horrid and no one with any character likes it... but there are times and places to have those discussions. Sometimes quiet reserve is the better part of valor.
  7. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake Active Member

    The question comes from the militarization of our police forces. After the attack of 911, a program to distribute military equipment to our civilian police forces was started. The result has been the creation to special response groups within our police forces. I just witnessed a grievous over-response by these troops in my town. We have a force that would be appropriate once every few decades in our little rural town. The overwhelming majority of the members of that group are not thugs hiding behind badges. The problem comes from the fact that they now have all these weapons which they want to play with. I hope that the extra training they receive with the toys makes them less prone to over-react. There needs to be a serious reconsideration of the trend to over-militarize our police. Build up our Reserve forces (of which I was a proud member), have reserve units able to provoide bac-up when needed.

    My Father carried badge most of his adult life (military) and made I have seen him flash it in the face of police who were out of line. Good cops should not have to be in danger because of bad cops.
  8. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake Active Member

    Our local police does a very good job of dealing with robbers. If a criminal broke into my house and were holding us hostage at gun-point, it might be useful to show up with the storm-troopers. Most of the time, one or two cars with a couple of officers would do the job.
  9. Interrogator#6

    Interrogator#6 Active Member

    I occasionally surf YouTube for videos of police malfesiance. There is a pletora of such stories. I suspect these videos represent the element of rogue policemen are about 2-5% of the force, but due to their licence to carry and weild deadly force, this is still a cancer in the body of American Society.

    Police are supposed to represent all of us, the American People. But we saw with the Occupy Wall Street counter-movement, all too often the police represent the plutocrats rather than the people. That is sestemic, now engrained in the system. Or there was the case of police conducting 'border patrol' checkpoints in the American S.W. some fifty miles inland from the closest international border, a violation of Constitutional rights.

    Sometimes it is a case of a policeman allowing his emotion to get the better of him, violating his professional ethics.

    Other times it is the case of police getting upset that a citizen deigh to film HIS (or her) action, (HOW DARE THEY). This is often the case of the citizen's video proving how the police overstep their duty, giving temselves plentipotempiary authority. There are even videos which, if authentic, shows police planting evidence.

    The police are usually righteous people, grand people, stalward people. The operative word here is that police are people. They are human beings, heir to all the faults and frailties of the human condition. They, despite what some may believe, are not endowed with divine sanction -- divine authority.
    thomas pendrake likes this.
  10. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    Hey there, Terro. Serious question here... have you ever tried putting something like "police heroes" or "police bravery" into your YouTube search? Because I have. There is a plethora of such stories. Food for thought, Sir. ;)
  11. Interrogator#6

    Interrogator#6 Active Member

    Yes, Kate, there are police heroes. There are masses of heroes, legions. And I agree that they deserve our thanks and praise. But, in a sense, it is their job to be heroes in the face of the madness which is the human condition.

    And I do not think there are an excess of demons in uniform. The problem is that the men and women in uniform blue are licenced to wield deadly force in our collective name, which can be a de facto licence to kill. That is exactly the issue at the core of the current Black Lives Matter contrivocy. There does seem to be a sestemic pattern of abuse and excuse of "blue on Black" violence and abuse. And this is not limited to the use of deadly force, but seems to extend into the realm of abuse of power in the name of control.

    Are all police criminals? NO. Are all police saints? Sadly no. Are a few police able to abuse their licence, and do the number seeming growing, also sadly, Yes.

    My philosophy is to support the police but know your own rights.
    thomas pendrake likes this.
  12. Kate

    Kate Active Member

    That's a very wise philosophy, @Interrogator#6 . As far as your other statement goes... well, I can't imagine even the most naive of souls thinking that all police should be saints... just like all priests, rabbis, ministers, imams, ayatollahs, and/or the Sangha are 100% saints. Or doctors. Or teachers. That would be a very strange kind of universe.

    So anyhow, yes, there's been a lot in the news about police misusing power, but for some strange {premeditated? Hmmm} reason, many times the *catalyst* that led to having to use excessive force is left out of the news report. Mayhaps more of that media bias and trying to stir up controversy as we've discussed in the past?
  13. thomas pendrake

    thomas pendrake Active Member

    One thug in police uniform is an excess. During the recent problem we had, the senior officials from the Sheriff's office were telling the rogue officers that the sheriff's office would be sued for their actions, and documented some of the erratic damage so that we could sue for recovery. My son had been seriously hurt by some unwanted company and had shot him to prevent further damage. The guy had a minor wound, but got the message. One of the deputies who arrested my son (the charges were dropped) deliberately kicked my son's 52 inch HD television and stole his e cigarettes , complete with charger and all supplies. We hope to get damages repaired and bad officers fired.
    I am preparing a post for my blog and expect to have some Cuban Americans contribute to the topic on my blog.

    I have been away from my writing for a few days due to the tragic death of my other son, Daniel Aaron Baker.
  14. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    I agree.
    Not so long ago I have heard the news story of some "storm troopers" rushed into a grandma's house with automatic weapons... only because the grandson had planted some weed in the backyard.

    On the other hand, when the German police got the info about a wanted serial killer showed up at a bar, just a dozen or so regular police officers walked into the bar and walked out with the guy in handcuffs. If it happened in the US, who knows how many battalions of "storm troopers" would have put up a show of force.

    Overuse of force and show offs is a total waste of tax payers' money.
  15. jrj1701

    jrj1701 Member

    U.S police forces do not always over react, it differs between jurisdictions, yet as a whole the police tend to respond with the appropriate force for the situation.
    Kbar6 likes this.
  16. vashstampede

    vashstampede Active Member

    From the examples I mentioned above, a SWAT team with automatic weapons kicked down the door just for a few planted weed. It looks like the storm troopers would rather vaporize the whole city block with super laser from the death star just to get one serial killer. Totally overkill.

    The joke aside. I know the "not always" part is true, but it is indeed more likely to happen in the US these days.
    jrj1701 likes this.
  17. jrj1701

    jrj1701 Member

    There have been cases where police were misled into sending SWAT teams to what was a deliberate phony call to the police. It is called SWATing. After the terrorist attacks in Paris expect more police over reaction.

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